1 00:00:19,070 --> 00:00:16,609 oh dear oh oh dear that theme I think it 2 00:00:21,410 --> 00:00:19,080 needs to go in for some rest and 3 00:00:24,259 --> 00:00:21,420 rehabilitation maybe a little bit of 4 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:24,269 time off our dear what do we do in the 5 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:25,890 meantime I know we've got the new theme 6 00:00:30,230 --> 00:00:27,330 and a lot of people do like the new 7 00:00:31,759 --> 00:00:30,240 theme maybe maybe you should compromise 8 00:00:34,190 --> 00:00:31,769 because people have been writing in 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:34,200 saying please keep the old theme but I 10 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:36,090 think I have come up with a compromise I 11 00:00:57,310 --> 00:00:39,930 really have and here is from now on the 12 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:00,470 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 13 00:01:19,780 --> 00:01:17,740 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 14 00:01:23,290 --> 00:01:19,790 Richard Saunders here from Sydney 15 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:23,300 Australia it's episode number 124 the 16 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:26,690 fourth of februari 2011 on this week's 17 00:01:31,749 --> 00:01:28,850 show we're going to dive into the muddy 18 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:31,759 waters once again that is power balance 19 00:01:39,070 --> 00:01:36,290 placebo bands he can stun however they 20 00:01:41,669 --> 00:01:39,080 pronounce it all these magical mystical 21 00:01:45,070 --> 00:01:41,679 bits of rub with Holograms stuck to them 22 00:01:47,260 --> 00:01:45,080 dr. Ricci in dr. Ricci reports segment 23 00:01:49,719 --> 00:01:47,270 is going to interview dr. Simon Bryce 24 00:01:53,260 --> 00:01:49,729 from the Royal Melbourne Institute of 25 00:01:55,810 --> 00:01:53,270 Technology about their tests into power 26 00:01:57,910 --> 00:01:55,820 balance and their conclusions I wonder 27 00:02:02,050 --> 00:01:57,920 what the conclusions were no surprises 28 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:02,060 there following that we have Maynard 29 00:02:07,749 --> 00:02:04,850 spooky action at a distance Maynard's 30 00:02:09,669 --> 00:02:07,759 going to interview Ian Emslie who is an 31 00:02:13,750 --> 00:02:09,679 optometrist they're going to be 32 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:13,760 discussing the bizarre trend of people 33 00:02:19,390 --> 00:02:16,130 trying to get drunk by putting vodka in 34 00:02:23,410 --> 00:02:19,400 their eyeballs I kid you not coming up 35 00:02:26,259 --> 00:02:23,420 and that audio is courtesy of the ABC 36 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:26,269 here in Australia Thank You ABC very 37 00:02:31,569 --> 00:02:28,970 much and to wrap up the show we have an 38 00:02:33,729 --> 00:02:31,579 interview with half of Melbourne yes 39 00:02:35,710 --> 00:02:33,739 half of Melbourne jumped onto their 40 00:02:37,900 --> 00:02:35,720 computers skyped me and we're going to 41 00:02:41,470 --> 00:02:37,910 be talking about Melbourne skeptics and 42 00:02:43,870 --> 00:02:41,480 their skeptics in the pub I wish I could 43 00:02:47,039 --> 00:02:43,880 be there right now now I'd like to bring 44 00:02:50,530 --> 00:02:47,049 Sydney listeners attention to the Sydney 45 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:50,540 1023 mass overdose on Sunday the sixth 46 00:02:56,979 --> 00:02:54,530 of februari 2011 that's only a couple of 47 00:02:58,720 --> 00:02:56,989 days from now we're going to be 48 00:03:00,420 --> 00:02:58,730 gathering at nine-thirty behind the 49 00:03:03,759 --> 00:03:00,430 opera house at the choo choo express 50 00:03:07,110 --> 00:03:03,769 that's with little um little our fun 51 00:03:10,420 --> 00:03:07,120 train sort of leaves from to guzzle down 52 00:03:14,699 --> 00:03:10,430 copious amounts of sugar pills otherwise 53 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:14,709 known as the scam sham con and outright 54 00:03:19,930 --> 00:03:17,330 fakery and fraud 55 00:03:23,740 --> 00:03:19,940 product that is homeopathy which you can 56 00:03:25,390 --> 00:03:23,750 buy at about any pharmacy you like come 57 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:25,400 and join us if you want to find out more 58 00:03:32,830 --> 00:03:28,510 head for meetup com and search for 59 00:03:35,100 --> 00:03:32,840 Sydney social skeptics and you can find 60 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:35,110 out more about that see you there on 61 00:03:41,410 --> 00:03:38,210 Sunday morning well I'm going to run 62 00:03:44,020 --> 00:03:41,420 downstairs grab some ice yes that's my 63 00:03:46,630 --> 00:03:44,030 drink of choice this week is pure solid 64 00:04:06,449 --> 00:03:46,640 ice because of the heat wave in Sydney 65 00:04:15,309 --> 00:04:09,820 now it's time for dr. Rachel reports 66 00:04:17,140 --> 00:04:15,319 with dr. Rachel Dunlop okay and so we 67 00:04:18,789 --> 00:04:17,150 welcome now to the skeptic zone dr. 68 00:04:20,979 --> 00:04:18,799 Simon bryce from the Royal Melbourne 69 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:20,989 Institute of Technology hi Simon welcome 70 00:04:25,780 --> 00:04:23,450 to the skeptic zone hi Rachel thanks 71 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:25,790 very much for having us so Simon can you 72 00:04:30,969 --> 00:04:27,050 just tell me a little bit about your 73 00:04:32,650 --> 00:04:30,979 academic background well myself and the 74 00:04:34,930 --> 00:04:32,660 other cheek and chief investigator the 75 00:04:38,170 --> 00:04:34,940 project beretta raza both chiropractors 76 00:04:40,870 --> 00:04:38,180 by trade my previous experience was also 77 00:04:42,580 --> 00:04:40,880 in a degree in human biology where I was 78 00:04:44,219 --> 00:04:42,590 on my way to becoming a microvascular 79 00:04:47,620 --> 00:04:44,229 physiologist before getting into 80 00:04:50,620 --> 00:04:47,630 chiropractic as a clinical background I 81 00:04:52,090 --> 00:04:50,630 did some research to the University of 82 00:04:54,010 --> 00:04:52,100 Melbourne for a while as a what's called 83 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:54,020 a pink red fellow a primary health care 84 00:04:59,190 --> 00:04:56,690 research evaluation and development so 85 00:05:02,650 --> 00:04:59,200 are there but it's a little bit of 86 00:05:04,060 --> 00:05:02,660 qualitative research and I think I'm 87 00:05:06,879 --> 00:05:04,070 still up mrs. if not a very fellow 88 00:05:09,250 --> 00:05:06,889 somewhere along the line there then took 89 00:05:11,230 --> 00:05:09,260 some time off from researching to do 90 00:05:13,650 --> 00:05:11,240 masters in neuroscience which I'm still 91 00:05:16,020 --> 00:05:13,660 just carding up with faces at the moment 92 00:05:19,540 --> 00:05:16,030 and also do some teaching as well that 93 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:19,550 MIT and sessional things here and there 94 00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:22,010 are three we educate the final year 95 00:05:28,540 --> 00:05:25,310 chiropractic students and yes a couple 96 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:28,550 of tea etc okay so so what was it that 97 00:05:32,860 --> 00:05:31,610 prompted you to duty study but and I as 98 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:32,870 well as take you to get at the 99 00:05:38,230 --> 00:05:34,970 University we both practice together as 100 00:05:40,420 --> 00:05:38,240 well in private practice and my special 101 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:40,430 area of interest is neurological 102 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:42,289 conditions specifically balance and then 103 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:44,330 vestibular rehabilitation therapies are 104 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:47,330 balanced rehabilitation and Brett treats 105 00:05:52,180 --> 00:05:50,090 a lot of elite athletes sorely little 106 00:05:54,940 --> 00:05:52,190 basketballs runners you know a whole 107 00:05:57,100 --> 00:05:54,950 bunch of other different athletes and we 108 00:05:58,659 --> 00:05:57,110 were each getting our own sort of 109 00:06:01,960 --> 00:05:58,669 patient populations coming in asking 110 00:06:03,550 --> 00:06:01,970 about these bands repeatedly the 111 00:06:05,950 --> 00:06:03,560 athletes would come in and say i'm using 112 00:06:07,779 --> 00:06:05,960 this how does it work and the balance 113 00:06:11,170 --> 00:06:07,789 patients were come in and say should I 114 00:06:11,830 --> 00:06:11,180 get this and we'll work and it's just 115 00:06:13,150 --> 00:06:11,840 one of the phenomena 116 00:06:15,490 --> 00:06:13,160 sort of crept up on us and most of the 117 00:06:17,020 --> 00:06:15,500 time these things coming goal is as most 118 00:06:19,420 --> 00:06:17,030 people in clinical and academic field 119 00:06:20,860 --> 00:06:19,430 nor as you know me but are magnets and 120 00:06:24,100 --> 00:06:20,870 copper bracelets and all different types 121 00:06:25,659 --> 00:06:24,110 of other metals usually but this seemed 122 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:25,669 just seemed to be really quite 123 00:06:31,030 --> 00:06:28,130 phenomenal in its in its uptake in the 124 00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:31,040 general population so we decided we had 125 00:06:35,260 --> 00:06:34,070 the equipment and we'd have a bit of fun 126 00:06:36,879 --> 00:06:35,270 and give it a go find out for ourselves 127 00:06:39,629 --> 00:06:36,889 because we couldn't find anything in the 128 00:06:42,070 --> 00:06:39,639 literature anywhere not surprisingly and 129 00:06:44,890 --> 00:06:42,080 we thought we could design a project in 130 00:06:47,170 --> 00:06:44,900 dumb in front of us up well that's funny 131 00:06:49,330 --> 00:06:47,180 you should mention that Simon because as 132 00:06:50,950 --> 00:06:49,340 it turns out power balance couldn't find 133 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:50,960 anything in the literature either when 134 00:06:55,180 --> 00:06:52,610 the a triple c ask them for evidence 135 00:06:57,879 --> 00:06:55,190 they said there's no scientific evidence 136 00:06:59,890 --> 00:06:57,889 to support our claims and I mean some of 137 00:07:02,050 --> 00:06:59,900 the claims that they make which use do 138 00:07:04,450 --> 00:07:02,060 you do cite in your study and you've put 139 00:07:06,070 --> 00:07:04,460 into your study is that they claim that 140 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:06,080 it improves your ballot your balance 141 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:09,650 your flexibility it also has a mile a 142 00:07:13,210 --> 00:07:11,570 hologram which is embedded with a range 143 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:13,220 of frequencies that react positively 144 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:15,650 with your body's energy field they 145 00:07:20,650 --> 00:07:17,690 result in faster synaptic responses I 146 00:07:22,330 --> 00:07:20,660 mean as a person with a physiology 147 00:07:25,330 --> 00:07:22,340 background does that make any sense to 148 00:07:27,610 --> 00:07:25,340 you no look I think what happens with 149 00:07:30,460 --> 00:07:27,620 these sort of things is and we did find 150 00:07:32,230 --> 00:07:30,470 some research on what's called human 151 00:07:34,230 --> 00:07:32,240 frequencies which are extremely low 152 00:07:36,250 --> 00:07:34,240 frequency electromagnetic fields and 153 00:07:38,589 --> 00:07:36,260 their effects on human physiology 154 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:38,599 there's a few papers out there are not 155 00:07:43,450 --> 00:07:40,250 that are quite well done and this is a 156 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:43,460 recognised feel of studying in physics 157 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:45,650 but a lot of people try and sort of hits 158 00:07:50,620 --> 00:07:49,490 their trailer to the contest so one 159 00:07:52,930 --> 00:07:50,630 thing to say that there are human 160 00:07:55,659 --> 00:07:52,940 frequencies and that these dlf fields 161 00:07:57,100 --> 00:07:55,669 you know affect human physiology it's 162 00:07:59,409 --> 00:07:57,110 another thing to then say that what 163 00:08:01,510 --> 00:07:59,419 you've produced subsequently effects 164 00:08:04,510 --> 00:08:01,520 that and then that positively affects 165 00:08:07,990 --> 00:08:04,520 the person so it's a big leap very big 166 00:08:11,230 --> 00:08:08,000 leap and and ultimately sifting through 167 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:11,240 that we we saw that the claims and the 168 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:12,650 mechanisms that they were claiming 169 00:08:17,770 --> 00:08:15,530 behind it but we sort of set out to sort 170 00:08:19,719 --> 00:08:17,780 of have a look at the if you've work 171 00:08:21,909 --> 00:08:19,729 rather than the house and we're going to 172 00:08:23,589 --> 00:08:21,919 be fined as an if then potentially later 173 00:08:25,270 --> 00:08:23,599 we'll concentrate on how but at the 174 00:08:27,370 --> 00:08:25,280 moment let's just find out if 175 00:08:28,870 --> 00:08:27,380 anything you know and not get too bogged 176 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:28,880 down in the in the potential theory 177 00:08:35,140 --> 00:08:31,850 which may be may be spot-on and maybe 178 00:08:36,940 --> 00:08:35,150 absolute rubbish you know well let's 179 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:36,950 talk about the trial then you did a 180 00:08:43,029 --> 00:08:39,890 randomized placebo-controlled trial with 181 00:08:45,370 --> 00:08:43,039 42 subjects now can you tell us a little 182 00:08:48,850 --> 00:08:45,380 bit about how you set up the trial 183 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:48,860 because you had a placebo and then you 184 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:51,410 had the power balance band tell me what 185 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:53,450 was your casino how did you develop that 186 00:09:01,480 --> 00:08:57,850 we actually took a real valence band and 187 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:01,490 excised the hologram from it and then 188 00:09:05,980 --> 00:09:03,650 ran down and manufactured some stainless 189 00:09:08,530 --> 00:09:05,990 steel from a nurse stainless steel discs 190 00:09:11,079 --> 00:09:08,540 to the same size and light as the hollow 191 00:09:13,270 --> 00:09:11,089 bench and replace the Holograms with 192 00:09:15,820 --> 00:09:13,280 those for those disks and after that we 193 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:15,830 to both the real device and a placebo 194 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:18,050 device and we cover them with a few 195 00:09:21,370 --> 00:09:20,450 sticky dots and turn them inside out so 196 00:09:24,190 --> 00:09:21,380 that people didn't know which one was 197 00:09:26,650 --> 00:09:24,200 which but to hold visually they look the 198 00:09:27,940 --> 00:09:26,660 same to hold they felt the same but one 199 00:09:29,260 --> 00:09:27,950 of the Holograms of the place for the 200 00:09:31,710 --> 00:09:29,270 Holograms I'm one river place for the 201 00:09:34,270 --> 00:09:31,720 steel discs and so you actually 202 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:34,280 concentrated on monitoring balance 203 00:09:38,890 --> 00:09:36,010 didn't assignment and you used 204 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:38,900 computerized dynamic posture ography can 205 00:09:43,210 --> 00:09:40,370 you explain to our listeners how that 206 00:09:46,030 --> 00:09:43,220 works sure it's reasonably standardized 207 00:09:48,970 --> 00:09:46,040 way to measure balance in the body and a 208 00:09:52,030 --> 00:09:48,980 clinical setting as well what it is it's 209 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:52,040 a fancy way of saying 90 set of scales 210 00:09:57,430 --> 00:09:54,370 effectively so people stand on a 211 00:09:59,650 --> 00:09:57,440 platform of balance plate and it 212 00:10:01,540 --> 00:09:59,660 measures sway so how far forward 213 00:10:03,460 --> 00:10:01,550 backwards left right people are leaning 214 00:10:05,110 --> 00:10:03,470 at any given point and of course in 215 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:05,120 normal balance we're all moving 216 00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:07,370 backwards and forwards in any given 217 00:10:11,230 --> 00:10:09,680 direction a little bit all the time and 218 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:11,240 what we can do with this plate is 219 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:13,130 measured that quite accurately but also 220 00:10:18,340 --> 00:10:15,530 we measure people under different 221 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:18,350 circumstances so standing on the pipe 222 00:10:21,820 --> 00:10:20,330 with their eyes open means that people 223 00:10:24,910 --> 00:10:21,830 are receiving information about where 224 00:10:27,070 --> 00:10:24,920 they are in space with all their inputs 225 00:10:29,110 --> 00:10:27,080 so feedback from muscles and joints like 226 00:10:30,910 --> 00:10:29,120 the ankles in particular feedback from 227 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:30,920 their eyes and feedback from their inner 228 00:10:36,220 --> 00:10:33,050 ear damaged systems then we can 229 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:36,230 eliminate one or another system by 230 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:37,610 getting them to do simple things like 231 00:10:41,509 --> 00:10:38,970 clothe their eyes 232 00:10:43,910 --> 00:10:41,519 again or stand on a phone surface which 233 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:43,920 will confuse the joint feedback measure 234 00:10:48,319 --> 00:10:45,810 them again or phone service with eyes 235 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:48,329 closed and measure them again and from 236 00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:49,410 that we get a whole bunch of data about 237 00:10:53,540 --> 00:10:51,360 how different people handle those 238 00:10:55,970 --> 00:10:53,550 different circumstances and an analog of 239 00:10:57,740 --> 00:10:55,980 fudge and I think it's important to note 240 00:10:59,900 --> 00:10:57,750 also that the person operating that 241 00:11:02,689 --> 00:10:59,910 machine didn't know whether the 242 00:11:04,340 --> 00:11:02,699 participant had the placebo or the power 243 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:04,350 balance is that correct yeah that's 244 00:11:09,319 --> 00:11:05,850 right we blinded the operator which 245 00:11:10,850 --> 00:11:09,329 happen to be me and and each group of 246 00:11:13,999 --> 00:11:10,860 participants which we randomized into 247 00:11:15,740 --> 00:11:14,009 two groups would go through testing one 248 00:11:18,350 --> 00:11:15,750 week where they were tested with the 249 00:11:20,269 --> 00:11:18,360 real device nothing and then at the 47 250 00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:20,279 of us then they'd have that auto-reverse 251 00:11:23,809 --> 00:11:21,839 the following week and then another 252 00:11:25,819 --> 00:11:23,819 group actually did but see though 253 00:11:27,439 --> 00:11:25,829 nothing real the Bison and have that 254 00:11:30,110 --> 00:11:27,449 over reversed the following week and 255 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:30,120 they never knew which the x feller using 256 00:11:34,879 --> 00:11:32,850 when they had others available pasiba so 257 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:34,889 we can hardly wait to hear Simon what 258 00:11:40,759 --> 00:11:38,250 happened what were the results well as 259 00:11:42,410 --> 00:11:40,769 you can probably imagine there was no 260 00:11:44,389 --> 00:11:42,420 statistically significant difference 261 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:44,399 between any of the groups across any of 262 00:11:51,340 --> 00:11:47,730 the procedures and even across time 263 00:11:54,379 --> 00:11:51,350 there was a trend for people to improve 264 00:11:56,540 --> 00:11:54,389 using so he did their standing on a 265 00:11:58,280 --> 00:11:56,550 phone with their eyes closed but 266 00:11:59,809 --> 00:11:58,290 everybody improved over time which 267 00:12:02,509 --> 00:11:59,819 effectively means it wasn't learning 268 00:12:04,100 --> 00:12:02,519 effect but as far as using the bracelets 269 00:12:07,850 --> 00:12:04,110 was concerned there was no difference 270 00:12:09,470 --> 00:12:07,860 between baseline and placebo in fact it 271 00:12:11,449 --> 00:12:09,480 was a little bit of a trend towards 272 00:12:13,610 --> 00:12:11,459 getting worse we divers up receiver with 273 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:13,620 a real device but again not 274 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:16,170 statistically significant what was 275 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:17,850 interesting for us is that we didn't 276 00:12:22,910 --> 00:12:20,250 even see a placebo effect normally in 277 00:12:24,379 --> 00:12:22,920 this sort of a study if we were asking 278 00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:24,389 people how has helped about their 279 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:26,160 balance we might assume that they would 280 00:12:30,439 --> 00:12:28,290 feel a bit better with the wheel or the 281 00:12:32,569 --> 00:12:30,449 placebo device but because we were 282 00:12:34,879 --> 00:12:32,579 measuring so objectively we didn't see 283 00:12:36,410 --> 00:12:34,889 anybody that effect at all and that's 284 00:12:38,660 --> 00:12:36,420 because you mentioned this in your paper 285 00:12:41,210 --> 00:12:38,670 that you weren't asking them to report 286 00:12:42,740 --> 00:12:41,220 how they thought they performed you were 287 00:12:46,689 --> 00:12:42,750 just measuring their performance right 288 00:12:48,860 --> 00:12:46,699 yep just doing it totally objective 289 00:12:51,380 --> 00:12:48,870 quantitative while using the measurement 290 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:51,390 platform and the perfect software 291 00:12:55,310 --> 00:12:53,610 and you didn't really why I'm unless 292 00:12:58,700 --> 00:12:55,320 they told us I felt like I gotta puke 293 00:12:59,780 --> 00:12:58,710 and we get him a bucket we didn't care 294 00:13:00,860 --> 00:12:59,790 about how they felt about their balance 295 00:13:02,450 --> 00:13:00,870 we only measured about how we can 296 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:02,460 measure it concern about how that 297 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:05,130 measure it so you also mentioned that 298 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:07,170 you didn't investigate some of the other 299 00:13:11,570 --> 00:13:09,210 claims that power balance particularly 300 00:13:13,220 --> 00:13:11,580 they make which is that their bracelet 301 00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:13,230 improves strength flexibility and 302 00:13:16,730 --> 00:13:15,120 endurance but you made a comment that 303 00:13:19,250 --> 00:13:16,740 because the hologram seemed to have no 304 00:13:20,450 --> 00:13:19,260 effect on balance you suggested that 305 00:13:22,130 --> 00:13:20,460 it's probably not going to have any 306 00:13:25,870 --> 00:13:22,140 other effects either what do you say 307 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:25,880 about that oh look we think it's some 308 00:13:31,820 --> 00:13:30,330 well let me partly comes down to we're 309 00:13:34,430 --> 00:13:31,830 talking about earlier the potential 310 00:13:36,050 --> 00:13:34,440 mechanisms behind it you know we've sort 311 00:13:38,210 --> 00:13:36,060 of showing that well it doesn't include 312 00:13:40,460 --> 00:13:38,220 balance which is quite a dynamic process 313 00:13:43,220 --> 00:13:40,470 that involves several different 314 00:13:46,010 --> 00:13:43,230 neurological and muscular skeletal 315 00:13:47,810 --> 00:13:46,020 systems coordinated all at once then 316 00:13:48,980 --> 00:13:47,820 it's unlikely that other things such as 317 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:48,990 strength and flexibility which 318 00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:52,050 ultimately can be even components of 319 00:13:57,650 --> 00:13:54,480 balance would move would be affected in 320 00:13:58,850 --> 00:13:57,660 any way we think it's it's highly 321 00:14:01,100 --> 00:13:58,860 unlikely again we better leave ourselves 322 00:14:02,510 --> 00:14:01,110 open and say look some of the head needs 323 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:02,520 to come along and test this stuff as 324 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:05,610 well and you know I've got a sneaking 325 00:14:10,370 --> 00:14:07,650 suspicion that some of the groups want 326 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:10,380 to do that but at the moment we think 327 00:14:15,530 --> 00:14:12,810 it's pretty are marking well then based 328 00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:15,540 on your findings in your opinion Simon 329 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:16,800 do you think that perhaps some of the 330 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:18,330 things that power ballads claim about 331 00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:20,010 their product could be construed as may 332 00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:23,310 be false advertising in Australia I 333 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:25,800 understand that what happened with the a 334 00:14:31,060 --> 00:14:29,010 Triple C and the city goods Association 335 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:31,070 is that they were actually in breach of 336 00:14:35,300 --> 00:14:33,330 the Trade Practices Act because they 337 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:35,310 were making see repeated claims and 338 00:14:41,150 --> 00:14:36,930 hadn't actually registered the device 339 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:41,160 with as a therapeutic good so never god 340 00:14:45,770 --> 00:14:42,930 yes they're making claims that are 341 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:45,780 unsubstantiated we've gone from a 342 00:14:49,370 --> 00:14:47,610 situation where we've had no evidence 343 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:49,380 that it did work but also no evidence 344 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:51,450 that it didn't now we've got evidence 345 00:14:56,090 --> 00:14:54,450 that it doesn't and so that some sir you 346 00:14:58,370 --> 00:14:56,100 guys change the place you have a little 347 00:15:01,010 --> 00:14:58,380 bit means that you know they certainly 348 00:15:02,630 --> 00:15:01,020 need to become a little California well 349 00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:02,640 it's very interesting because when all 350 00:15:09,210 --> 00:15:05,529 the news came out about the HR policy 351 00:15:11,819 --> 00:15:09,220 decision in December 2010 that also is 352 00:15:15,540 --> 00:15:11,829 now a class-action lawsuit being 353 00:15:17,189 --> 00:15:15,550 compiled in LA in the States but Power 354 00:15:19,199 --> 00:15:17,199 Balance continue to claim that their 355 00:15:21,660 --> 00:15:19,209 product works everywhere else except in 356 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:21,670 Australia so do you think as a 357 00:15:27,090 --> 00:15:24,970 physiologist that perhaps the hologram 358 00:15:29,699 --> 00:15:27,100 might not work upside down in the 359 00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:29,709 southern hemisphere well you know again 360 00:15:35,009 --> 00:15:31,360 with if we're talking electromagnetic 361 00:15:37,949 --> 00:15:35,019 fields yeah who knows maybe you know in 362 00:15:40,769 --> 00:15:37,959 another 2,000 years we'll the polar to 363 00:15:43,199 --> 00:15:40,779 the polls will clip and everything will 364 00:15:45,929 --> 00:15:43,209 work down here and my work in the 365 00:15:48,860 --> 00:15:45,939 northern hemisphere is back again my 366 00:15:51,299 --> 00:15:48,870 knowledge of physics is think of a bit 367 00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:51,309 so you mentioned Simon that you work 368 00:15:55,799 --> 00:15:52,959 with sports people and obviously they're 369 00:15:57,540 --> 00:15:55,809 very superstitious so despite the fact 370 00:15:59,819 --> 00:15:57,550 that there's been a lot of evidence now 371 00:16:01,829 --> 00:15:59,829 to show that [\h__\h] our power balance is 372 00:16:03,689 --> 00:16:01,839 really no more beneficial than a rubber 373 00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:03,699 band do you think they'll continue to 374 00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:08,800 wear them I had a patient last week come 375 00:16:15,119 --> 00:16:11,769 in who works at a chemist and was 376 00:16:16,650 --> 00:16:15,129 telling me that somebody came in after 377 00:16:20,579 --> 00:16:16,660 we'd actually been on the news reporting 378 00:16:21,780 --> 00:16:20,589 these results and said oh I don't care 379 00:16:24,569 --> 00:16:21,790 what they say I'm going to get one 380 00:16:26,579 --> 00:16:24,579 anyway and actually bought one and then 381 00:16:28,439 --> 00:16:26,589 it sort of struck me that people in the 382 00:16:30,079 --> 00:16:28,449 general population don't tend to worry 383 00:16:32,249 --> 00:16:30,089 too much about that sort of stuff 384 00:16:33,299 --> 00:16:32,259 whether it's proven or not there is 385 00:16:34,379 --> 00:16:33,309 something they're going to believe we're 386 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:34,389 gardless there was something there going 387 00:16:41,460 --> 00:16:38,050 to be skeptical regardless having said 388 00:16:43,980 --> 00:16:41,470 that the athlete side of things we did 389 00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:43,990 actually have contact last year with a 390 00:16:48,689 --> 00:16:46,480 an agent for somebody for a few athletes 391 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:48,699 wanting to know the results before hand 392 00:16:52,410 --> 00:16:50,290 so they could tell their athletes to 393 00:16:54,210 --> 00:16:52,420 stop using them if they didn't work so 394 00:16:56,340 --> 00:16:54,220 that they didn't look too foolish than 395 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:56,350 the results were released means I I 396 00:16:58,919 --> 00:16:57,730 think that our minds will have that sort 397 00:17:00,840 --> 00:16:58,929 of stuff that I did give it probably 398 00:17:03,090 --> 00:17:00,850 depends on how high profile they are the 399 00:17:05,699 --> 00:17:03,100 average amateur football or a 400 00:17:06,750 --> 00:17:05,709 basketballer no probably couldn't care 401 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:06,760 less and if they feel they're getting an 402 00:17:10,949 --> 00:17:09,730 advantage of and let them go we're we're 403 00:17:13,230 --> 00:17:10,959 more worried about our patients and 404 00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:13,240 having appropriate diagnosis to later 405 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:16,240 etcetera well interestingly Djokovic was 406 00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:18,850 wearing one in the tennis a couple of 407 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:19,370 nights ago 408 00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:21,890 and one so obviously that was because of 409 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:24,319 the power balance band not because 410 00:17:27,579 --> 00:17:25,730 they're a very good tennis player or 411 00:17:31,420 --> 00:17:27,589 anything to do with their skills it was 412 00:17:33,549 --> 00:17:31,430 a bad so well the blogosphere guys in 413 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:33,559 the file i suppose and you know going to 414 00:17:38,049 --> 00:17:34,850 be losers it may be because the damage 415 00:17:41,380 --> 00:17:38,059 on the wrong restore upside down again 416 00:17:44,170 --> 00:17:41,390 you know we have had one group contact 417 00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:44,180 us claiming that should be using it on 418 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:46,370 the left side not the right because the 419 00:17:52,270 --> 00:17:48,170 that's apparently where energy enters 420 00:17:54,970 --> 00:17:52,280 the bike yeah it's a little bit but you 421 00:17:56,110 --> 00:17:54,980 know again you know so one of the really 422 00:17:59,020 --> 00:17:56,120 interesting things that you've just 423 00:18:00,970 --> 00:17:59,030 mentioned to me is that I'm a lot of 424 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:00,980 people would say well if it's placebo 425 00:18:04,540 --> 00:18:03,050 the placebo effect is a real effect 426 00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:04,550 therefore it works but you're saying 427 00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:06,710 that you didn't even find a placebo 428 00:18:10,780 --> 00:18:08,240 effect with these bands that's something 429 00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:10,790 really interesting yeah definitely this 430 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:12,320 from the quantitative measures that we 431 00:18:18,430 --> 00:18:14,690 did we didn't see any positive effect at 432 00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:18,440 all so I suppose it means if there's a 433 00:18:24,340 --> 00:18:22,370 real world effect then what we what we 434 00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:24,350 think is happening is that yes it's odd 435 00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:26,480 a semi effect so it's a perception of 436 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:28,640 improvement not necessarily an actual 437 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:31,250 improvement or like anything else people 438 00:18:35,049 --> 00:18:33,050 the more they do physical activity so 439 00:18:36,130 --> 00:18:35,059 for example that put one on and keep 440 00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:36,140 playing golf they're just practicing 441 00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:37,460 golf more so they're getting better 442 00:18:41,820 --> 00:18:39,200 because they're practicing and doing it 443 00:18:44,980 --> 00:18:41,830 more it's probably have to take a look 444 00:18:46,419 --> 00:18:44,990 so just a final final question Simon why 445 00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:46,429 do you think then this product has been 446 00:18:51,940 --> 00:18:49,910 so successful because since 2007 these 447 00:18:54,220 --> 00:18:51,950 two guys have sold more than three 448 00:18:56,410 --> 00:18:54,230 million units of these things and I've 449 00:18:59,169 --> 00:18:56,420 seen them myself we also have as you've 450 00:19:01,240 --> 00:18:59,179 just heard a placebo band which is made 451 00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:01,250 in the same company for about two 452 00:19:05,770 --> 00:19:03,740 dollars and the power balance bands sell 453 00:19:08,620 --> 00:19:05,780 for up to sixty dollars here why do you 454 00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:08,630 think it's so successful I think it's 455 00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:12,710 some great marketing terrific 456 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:14,809 endorsements from well my athlete so 457 00:19:17,710 --> 00:19:16,490 they're nothing to be sneezed at when 458 00:19:19,780 --> 00:19:17,720 you're trying to market something to 459 00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:19,790 athletes both amateur and professional 460 00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:25,130 and it's pretty yeah it's kind of glue 461 00:19:30,130 --> 00:19:27,470 be looking and people like a trend ain't 462 00:19:32,290 --> 00:19:30,140 the best I can say yeah the other thing 463 00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:32,300 from clinical aspect is that what we're 464 00:19:36,369 --> 00:19:33,049 seeing 465 00:19:38,729 --> 00:19:36,379 is that people want a quick fix you know 466 00:19:41,499 --> 00:19:38,739 so rather than going through weeks of 467 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:41,509 vestibular rehabilitative therapy they 468 00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:43,610 want to put a band on and get better 469 00:19:47,950 --> 00:19:45,470 balance you know just like people like 470 00:19:51,039 --> 00:19:47,960 to take a pill and feminazis go away or 471 00:19:52,450 --> 00:19:51,049 what have you so yeah people it's you 472 00:19:54,940 --> 00:19:52,460 know a little bit about people want that 473 00:19:57,970 --> 00:19:54,950 edge but there anything to get it and 474 00:20:00,519 --> 00:19:57,980 also there's a trend aspect and one for 475 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:00,529 quick fix okay so Simon obviously your 476 00:20:04,180 --> 00:20:02,690 publication is currently impressed in 477 00:20:05,799 --> 00:20:04,190 the Journal of bodywork and movement 478 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:05,809 therapies when do you expect it will be 479 00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:08,090 published we're hoping will be in the 480 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:09,679 next issue which will be in a pool that 481 00:20:15,999 --> 00:20:13,129 we just we just finished reviewing the 482 00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:16,009 article of the moment so dr. them at the 483 00:20:20,349 --> 00:20:18,769 boat hopefully arikil okay so in the 484 00:20:22,599 --> 00:20:20,359 meantime how can a listers find out more 485 00:20:24,029 --> 00:20:22,609 about this particular study or more 486 00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:24,039 about the research that you're doing 487 00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:26,720 they can just get onto RMIT's website 488 00:20:32,619 --> 00:20:30,769 but mit.edu a you or contact our mighty 489 00:20:34,299 --> 00:20:32,629 media and they can issue press release 490 00:20:35,710 --> 00:20:34,309 or you can get in contact with me 491 00:20:38,830 --> 00:20:35,720 directly through our mighty medium as 492 00:20:40,419 --> 00:20:38,840 well alright well thanks very much dr. 493 00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:40,429 Simon Bryce for joining us today on the 494 00:21:02,190 --> 00:20:59,670 and now I have a few more snippets just 495 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:02,200 in case you haven't had enough of Power 496 00:21:07,170 --> 00:21:04,810 Balance just yet and I think we've all 497 00:21:09,810 --> 00:21:07,180 had enough but anyway if you're 498 00:21:12,420 --> 00:21:09,820 interested in following the lawsuit 499 00:21:18,350 --> 00:21:12,430 against Power Balance you can go to HTTP 500 00:21:23,910 --> 00:21:18,360 colon slash slash ww Power Balance class 501 00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:23,920 action com oh what a sweet URL that is 502 00:21:30,270 --> 00:21:28,510 power balance class action calm also we 503 00:21:33,060 --> 00:21:30,280 notice that the New Zealand Prime 504 00:21:35,610 --> 00:21:33,070 Minister John Key hello everybody 505 00:21:38,490 --> 00:21:35,620 listening in New Zealand am sorry your 506 00:21:40,350 --> 00:21:38,500 Prime Minister's doing this was 507 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:40,360 photographed wearing a power balance 508 00:21:46,260 --> 00:21:43,930 wristband what he's been taken to task 509 00:21:48,810 --> 00:21:46,270 by the New Zealand media at the moment 510 00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:48,820 and so he should goodness me I've come 511 00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:50,110 across the web site of another 512 00:21:56,130 --> 00:21:52,870 interesting product which looks very 513 00:22:01,530 --> 00:21:56,140 much like Power Balance called improve 514 00:22:05,570 --> 00:22:01,540 balance bands calm yes or at improved 515 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:05,580 balance on Twitter and they are very 516 00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:08,410 closely following what power balance 517 00:22:12,060 --> 00:22:10,240 doers in their advertising in their 518 00:22:14,940 --> 00:22:12,070 promotional blurbs in fact the 519 00:22:18,660 --> 00:22:14,950 promotional blurbs on improved balance 520 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:18,670 parents calm is verbatim from power 521 00:22:24,510 --> 00:22:22,090 balance who is copping whom I wonder and 522 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:24,520 finally I will leave you with the words 523 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:28,090 of Melbourne chiropractor dr. Matt 524 00:22:35,460 --> 00:22:31,450 Bateman who last year at any rate was a 525 00:22:38,530 --> 00:22:35,470 fan of power balance wristbands 526 00:22:40,540 --> 00:22:38,540 Melbourne chiropractor dr. Matt Bateman 527 00:22:43,780 --> 00:22:40,550 has tried it on hundreds of his patients 528 00:22:46,990 --> 00:22:43,790 even staking his reputation on it can 529 00:22:49,930 --> 00:22:47,000 increase strength balance stability and 530 00:22:50,860 --> 00:22:49,940 core power so and flexibility as well so 531 00:22:53,410 --> 00:22:50,870 there's a lot of things that can 532 00:22:55,810 --> 00:22:53,420 actually do hold now do you feel 533 00:22:57,190 --> 00:22:55,820 stronger ok it's I'm putting a lot more 534 00:22:59,920 --> 00:22:57,200 pressure there's only so much you can 535 00:23:01,810 --> 00:22:59,930 fake I'm not faking five hundred percent 536 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:01,820 increase strength and stability is which 537 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:03,410 is what I felt when I first did the test 538 00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:10,250 I can't fake that hey boo oh hey bro 539 00:23:15,610 --> 00:23:12,710 what on your wrist is that a balance 540 00:23:18,220 --> 00:23:15,620 pavan what the no no this is a placebo 541 00:23:21,010 --> 00:23:18,230 man a what that's right new from skeptic 542 00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:21,020 Bruce com+ superb and no more popping 543 00:23:25,180 --> 00:23:22,640 pills painful needles or smelly 544 00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:25,190 ointments huh the suburban uses two 545 00:23:29,050 --> 00:23:26,960 powerful scientifically proven affects 546 00:23:30,970 --> 00:23:29,060 the placebo effect and confirmation bias 547 00:23:32,830 --> 00:23:30,980 seriously there's no one else here who 548 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:32,840 are you yelling at the super bands in 549 00:23:35,980 --> 00:23:34,310 five fashionable colors are available 550 00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:35,990 for only two dollars each plus postage 551 00:23:41,410 --> 00:23:38,960 and handling from skeptic bros com get 552 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:41,420 yours today why do I even talk to you 553 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:43,490 I'm your brother and mum says you have 554 00:23:55,340 --> 00:23:53,200 here's may not spooky action at the 555 00:23:56,930 --> 00:23:55,350 distance 556 00:23:58,370 --> 00:23:56,940 I've investigated some pretty stupid 557 00:23:59,960 --> 00:23:58,380 things in my time but one of the most 558 00:24:03,620 --> 00:23:59,970 stupid things that's come to my notice 559 00:24:06,049 --> 00:24:03,630 recently from overseas podcasts adam 560 00:24:10,130 --> 00:24:06,059 curry has covered it extensively is some 561 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:10,140 the big vodka eyeball shot fiasco this 562 00:24:16,659 --> 00:24:13,130 is where people usually young people 563 00:24:19,340 --> 00:24:16,669 doing vodka shots into their eye who 564 00:24:20,750 --> 00:24:19,350 would do that I don't know I've seen 565 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:20,760 pretty stupid people doing it laptop 566 00:24:24,890 --> 00:24:23,250 come to an I'm tamo trust here in MZ hi 567 00:24:27,169 --> 00:24:24,900 na IM good thanks very much how are you 568 00:24:29,630 --> 00:24:27,179 drinking vodka can be dangerous enough 569 00:24:32,299 --> 00:24:29,640 without pouring into your eye Oh exactly 570 00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:32,309 yeah and forty percent alcohol as you 571 00:24:36,529 --> 00:24:34,710 know vodkas been used as disinfectant 572 00:24:38,270 --> 00:24:36,539 yeah what do you do poor disinfectant in 573 00:24:40,279 --> 00:24:38,280 your eye I mean it's a very very stupid 574 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:40,289 thing to do now the idea is that it 575 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:42,210 actually gets you drunk faster because 576 00:24:46,250 --> 00:24:43,890 there's blood vessels in your eyes that 577 00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:46,260 comes orb the vodka faster than it can 578 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:48,809 through your stomach from a man who is a 579 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:51,330 drinker be an optometrist what's your 580 00:24:54,980 --> 00:24:53,010 professional opinion on this idea ah 581 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:54,990 totally false I mean there might be some 582 00:24:58,880 --> 00:24:56,850 very very minimal absorption but it'd be 583 00:25:00,409 --> 00:24:58,890 incredibly tiny compared to what the 584 00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:00,419 stomach and especially is small 585 00:25:04,159 --> 00:25:02,400 intestine can do so go through what 586 00:25:06,590 --> 00:25:04,169 would happen if you poured something 587 00:25:08,990 --> 00:25:06,600 like vodka or any alcohol directly into 588 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:09,000 your eye most of it would spill out for 589 00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:11,130 start because the I can really only hold 590 00:25:15,620 --> 00:25:13,710 one drop maybe even two but maybe a one 591 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:15,630 drop but most of it would just pull 592 00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:17,010 straight out all you're going to really 593 00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:18,809 get in there is one drop for a little 594 00:25:23,299 --> 00:25:20,880 while and it's just going to be very 595 00:25:24,980 --> 00:25:23,309 irritating to the to the conjunctiva the 596 00:25:26,330 --> 00:25:24,990 membranes the delicate membranes around 597 00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:26,340 over the white part of the eye on the 598 00:25:30,740 --> 00:25:28,320 inside of the lid what damage to the 599 00:25:32,299 --> 00:25:30,750 vision can you expect probably it'll be 600 00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:32,309 a little bit of swelling maybe the next 601 00:25:35,659 --> 00:25:33,840 day so it could be a little bit blurry 602 00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:35,669 for with swelling of the cornea which is 603 00:25:38,990 --> 00:25:37,679 the clear membrane over the front of the 604 00:25:41,450 --> 00:25:39,000 eye and so there could be a little bit 605 00:25:43,340 --> 00:25:41,460 blur in the next day but it repeated 606 00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:43,350 exposures Yearwood with certainly course 607 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:45,840 some big problems and in these videos we 608 00:25:50,090 --> 00:25:47,490 see the people doing it and the idea is 609 00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:50,100 that they get more drunk but we've never 610 00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:52,289 seen someone go from a sober state doing 611 00:25:56,090 --> 00:25:54,809 it so your theory that you mentioned to 612 00:25:57,500 --> 00:25:56,100 me when I rang you about this was in 613 00:25:58,909 --> 00:25:57,510 fact they're just drunk in the first 614 00:26:00,620 --> 00:25:58,919 place and this really isn't adding 615 00:26:01,909 --> 00:26:00,630 anything to it and also there's an 616 00:26:03,649 --> 00:26:01,919 inflammatory effect you are mentioning 617 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:03,659 that happens that might block the whole 618 00:26:08,180 --> 00:26:06,210 alcohol absorption anyway it's totally 619 00:26:08,450 --> 00:26:08,190 impossible you can't go from sober to 620 00:26:10,250 --> 00:26:08,460 being 621 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:10,260 very quickly drunk by pouring vodka in 622 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:11,730 your eye it just is not going to happen 623 00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:14,250 it will not happen you're far better to 624 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:17,130 have a lot of them vodka alcohol on an 625 00:26:20,750 --> 00:26:18,930 empty stomach that's the quick way to do 626 00:26:22,580 --> 00:26:20,760 it and that's why people to be doing a 627 00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:22,590 few years actually tried and true method 628 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:24,360 for sure you mentioned an inflammatory 629 00:26:28,850 --> 00:26:26,490 response so when the alcohol hit CI what 630 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:28,860 does the I do but movie sets up a 631 00:26:33,620 --> 00:26:31,650 reaction against the toxicity the 632 00:26:36,050 --> 00:26:33,630 chemical reaction that goes against the 633 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:36,060 tissue and so you get a lot of blood 634 00:26:39,860 --> 00:26:37,890 vessel response to try and clear up 635 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:39,870 whatever's causing the irritation so you 636 00:26:43,340 --> 00:26:41,610 get a lot of swelling fluid swelling to 637 00:26:44,810 --> 00:26:43,350 protect itself and a lot of blood vessel 638 00:26:46,790 --> 00:26:44,820 activity going on and there's also 639 00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:46,800 possible burning of the cornea or the 640 00:26:50,270 --> 00:26:48,480 clear part which incredibly painful 641 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:50,280 because it's the most sensitive part of 642 00:26:53,330 --> 00:26:51,930 the body has got the most pain nerve 643 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:53,340 endings that anywhere in the body so 644 00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:54,810 there'll be a lot of reactions going on 645 00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:56,370 with that stuff so as an eye care 646 00:27:00,080 --> 00:26:58,320 professional why do you think people are 647 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:00,090 pouring something as stupid as that in 648 00:27:05,030 --> 00:27:02,730 their eye when my theory is purely 649 00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:05,040 risk-taking it's you know it's a way of 650 00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:06,510 saying look at me look at our you know 651 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:08,640 how brave I am I'm pouring vodka 652 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:10,770 directly into my of my eye you know it's 653 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:12,810 young men maybe some women do it but 654 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:14,250 judge me on my wrist take a look at me 655 00:27:17,570 --> 00:27:16,410 how sexy I am and what would your 656 00:27:19,030 --> 00:27:17,580 message me or anyone who's even thinking 657 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:19,040 that although it should be obvious 658 00:27:23,150 --> 00:27:21,810 definitely don't do it obviously but you 659 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:23,160 could I mean why haven't they poured it 660 00:27:26,030 --> 00:27:24,570 into their ear I mean would you pour 661 00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:26,040 vodka into your ear I mean that's that's 662 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:28,110 pretty close to the brain so give that a 663 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:30,690 go I don't think so okay well it's a bit 664 00:27:34,370 --> 00:27:32,850 like saying look I want a sugar head you 665 00:27:36,620 --> 00:27:34,380 know I'm feeling a little bit rundown i 666 00:27:38,780 --> 00:27:36,630 know what i'll do i'll put a mars bar in 667 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:38,790 my eye now would you put a mars bar in 668 00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:40,050 your life you wanted a sugar here of 669 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:55,620 hi this is michael cruz from the 670 00:27:58,590 --> 00:27:56,650 committee for the advancement of 671 00:28:00,960 --> 00:27:58,600 scientific skepticism at the center for 672 00:28:02,430 --> 00:28:00,970 inquiry canada Cass is committed to 673 00:28:04,380 --> 00:28:02,440 critically examining scientific 674 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:04,390 technological and medical claims in the 675 00:28:09,210 --> 00:28:06,850 public forum across Canada working with 676 00:28:11,010 --> 00:28:09,220 our expert advisors local cfi branches 677 00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:11,020 and other skeptical groups Cass 678 00:28:15,140 --> 00:28:12,370 confronts the peddlers of pseudoscience 679 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:15,150 with evidence-based scientific inquiry 680 00:28:19,710 --> 00:28:17,410 2010 has been a watershed here for the 681 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:19,720 sceptical movement in Canada and in 2011 682 00:28:23,940 --> 00:28:21,610 cast will continue fighting bad science 683 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:23,950 in the media and the government if you 684 00:28:26,490 --> 00:28:25,210 would like to become involved in the 685 00:28:28,050 --> 00:28:26,500 fight to promote critical thinking in 686 00:28:29,550 --> 00:28:28,060 Canada or if you have a concern about 687 00:28:31,770 --> 00:28:29,560 the spread of pseudoscience in the 688 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:31,780 Canadian media please contact us at 689 00:28:37,410 --> 00:28:34,690 casts at cfi canada CA you can also 690 00:28:39,450 --> 00:28:37,420 follow us on twitter at cfi casts and on 691 00:28:42,330 --> 00:28:39,460 facebook at cass at center for inquiry 692 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:42,340 canada casts fighting pseudoscience 693 00:29:00,800 --> 00:28:58,460 and joining me on skype now I think I've 694 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:00,810 got practically half of Melbourne in 695 00:29:06,830 --> 00:29:02,730 fact it's the Melbourne skeptics hello 696 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:06,840 everyone hello you see I've got half of 697 00:29:11,450 --> 00:29:09,210 melbourne on line right now let's kick 698 00:29:13,310 --> 00:29:11,460 off with a chris higgins hi Chris hey 699 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:13,320 Richard how you doing I'm doing well 700 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:14,970 it's a bit hot in Sydney and so hot down 701 00:29:19,010 --> 00:29:16,530 in Melbourne as I understand at the 702 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:19,020 moment it's very very warm it's very 703 00:29:23,660 --> 00:29:21,330 warm all over the place we have ed hello 704 00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:23,670 ed hello how're we going we're going 705 00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:27,120 well and aleeah's hi Ella Oh as you go 706 00:29:32,330 --> 00:29:29,310 on good apart from roasting and roasting 707 00:29:34,190 --> 00:29:32,340 of course I'm fine Karen breaking 708 00:29:36,170 --> 00:29:34,200 greetings now you're speaking to us from 709 00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:36,180 your headphones aren't you I am indeed 710 00:29:42,020 --> 00:29:39,120 yes creative lot these Melbourne people 711 00:29:44,510 --> 00:29:42,030 we've got that we've got Lucas Randall 712 00:29:48,020 --> 00:29:44,520 hi Lucas hello Richard how are you oh 713 00:29:50,930 --> 00:29:48,030 I'm fine and Matthew I Richard yep 714 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:50,940 everyone's here including our favorite 715 00:29:58,490 --> 00:29:52,770 from the Melbourne think tank a couple 716 00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:58,500 of weeks ago it's postie Lindley good 717 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:00,960 lately I've got another vodka drink to 718 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:03,330 it seems they have lots of voices that's 719 00:30:07,910 --> 00:30:06,450 quite women okay let's kick off with you 720 00:30:10,850 --> 00:30:07,920 Chris can you fill us in a little bit 721 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:10,860 about what this Melbourne skeptics is 722 00:30:16,610 --> 00:30:14,370 all about and your first big night yes 723 00:30:18,260 --> 00:30:16,620 certainly the the idea i had the idea i 724 00:30:20,090 --> 00:30:18,270 mean obviously it's not it's not my idea 725 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:20,100 but i thought before tam it'd be really 726 00:30:24,740 --> 00:30:22,410 cool to to get a melbourne skeptics in 727 00:30:27,620 --> 00:30:24,750 the pub happening because we haven't had 728 00:30:31,070 --> 00:30:27,630 one in melbourne for since before I was 729 00:30:33,290 --> 00:30:31,080 born that's not true and I spoke to our 730 00:30:36,860 --> 00:30:33,300 good friend travis roy from the Granite 731 00:30:38,270 --> 00:30:36,870 State skeptics who I met in vegas and he 732 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:38,280 gave me some really good advice on sort 733 00:30:42,350 --> 00:30:40,530 of firing stuff up and and that was 734 00:30:44,420 --> 00:30:42,360 pretty much it i picked a venue put it 735 00:30:46,010 --> 00:30:44,430 on facebook and said if you want to come 736 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:46,020 along this is when we're doing it and 737 00:30:52,190 --> 00:30:49,770 and it was a massive success so which is 738 00:30:54,380 --> 00:30:52,200 really cool so all the other people 739 00:30:56,750 --> 00:30:54,390 there are Eddie for example you came 740 00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:56,760 along just to check it out yeah 741 00:31:02,460 --> 00:30:58,240 basically I had a great time 742 00:31:04,169 --> 00:31:02,470 at at time and really thought that this 743 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:04,179 was the best thing to do because there's 744 00:31:08,460 --> 00:31:06,010 so many like-minded people and a great 745 00:31:09,810 --> 00:31:08,470 chance to talk about things that maybe 746 00:31:11,580 --> 00:31:09,820 with some of my other friends I can't 747 00:31:13,650 --> 00:31:11,590 really talk about your astrology and 748 00:31:15,810 --> 00:31:13,660 that where people are all a little bit 749 00:31:17,430 --> 00:31:15,820 you know touchy about here i can 750 00:31:19,650 --> 00:31:17,440 actually let loose and you had a great 751 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:19,660 time lots of good food good drinks 752 00:31:23,910 --> 00:31:22,210 awesome people that sounds too good to 753 00:31:26,669 --> 00:31:23,920 be true i'm sorry i missed it now I 754 00:31:29,730 --> 00:31:26,679 really should i love i love going to the 755 00:31:31,650 --> 00:31:29,740 these events now let's move on and we'll 756 00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:31,660 chat with ilyas what's your connection 757 00:31:36,390 --> 00:31:34,480 ilyas we'll all of this well not 758 00:31:37,650 --> 00:31:36,400 basically being following this skeptics 759 00:31:40,049 --> 00:31:37,660 movement for a couple of years now 760 00:31:43,410 --> 00:31:40,059 instead of gotten involved on the 761 00:31:45,750 --> 00:31:43,420 internet mainly with the lobby against 762 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:45,760 the australian anti-vaccination group 763 00:31:50,490 --> 00:31:48,370 yeah so you know I've been pretty very 764 00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:50,500 softly involved to the stop the avian 765 00:31:54,540 --> 00:31:52,809 Facebook webpage apart from you know 766 00:31:57,030 --> 00:31:54,550 doing a little bit of a panic on Twitter 767 00:31:58,380 --> 00:31:57,040 so for me I've always been into what 768 00:32:01,470 --> 00:31:58,390 always wanted to have something it was 769 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:01,480 more local with no burn but it's nice to 770 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:03,250 having a struggling skeptics in a big 771 00:32:07,740 --> 00:32:05,290 story Victoria's skeptics just the arm 772 00:32:09,419 --> 00:32:07,750 of that but then this was just for us 773 00:32:12,690 --> 00:32:09,429 and a better feel more accessible when 774 00:32:15,150 --> 00:32:12,700 its local so that I of what else is all 775 00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:15,160 about ah great look this is just our 776 00:32:19,860 --> 00:32:16,960 little sort of cup of tea and I just 777 00:32:22,169 --> 00:32:19,870 wanted to get into it straight away it 778 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:22,179 does that answer your question it does 779 00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:24,010 it absolutely because this something we 780 00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:26,320 we really encourage we are we're 781 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:29,110 delighted when people sort of well more 782 00:32:32,730 --> 00:32:30,970 or less spontaneously decide to get 783 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:32,740 together and call themselves the local 784 00:32:38,790 --> 00:32:35,290 skeptic a group because you can always 785 00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:38,800 tap into the greater what shall we say 786 00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:41,110 the greater Oort cloud of skepticism out 787 00:32:46,260 --> 00:32:44,320 there with with the contacts especially 788 00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:46,270 a one Chris Higgins who has a very 789 00:32:52,110 --> 00:32:50,110 special contact of course a good contact 790 00:32:53,850 --> 00:32:52,120 with james randi as our listeners would 791 00:32:57,150 --> 00:32:53,860 have known from a few weeks ago is so 792 00:32:59,970 --> 00:32:57,160 Chris was James Randy's assistant that 793 00:33:02,010 --> 00:32:59,980 in Austria true very very true and I've 794 00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:02,020 been it's given me enormous bragging 795 00:33:07,230 --> 00:33:04,720 rights ever since Tam ya don't know it 796 00:33:09,390 --> 00:33:07,240 so tell us 797 00:33:13,020 --> 00:33:09,400 and for the rest of your life no doubt 798 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:13,030 indeed no Karen on speaking through a 799 00:33:19,919 --> 00:33:16,330 headphone ello tam Karen yes I certainly 800 00:33:21,510 --> 00:33:19,929 was um and were you involved in the 801 00:33:25,100 --> 00:33:21,520 skeptics before then forgive me if I 802 00:33:27,419 --> 00:33:25,110 don't know not really I've been a 803 00:33:30,690 --> 00:33:27,429 spectator in the skeptical movement for 804 00:33:35,850 --> 00:33:30,700 for a while but before time I was quite 805 00:33:39,060 --> 00:33:35,860 inactive and it showed me what's around 806 00:33:42,060 --> 00:33:39,070 what I can actually do and yeah that was 807 00:33:44,340 --> 00:33:42,070 a good good to expand my horizons and 808 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:44,350 that respect well we're delighted that 809 00:33:48,990 --> 00:33:46,450 someone like you who has had an interest 810 00:33:50,580 --> 00:33:49,000 and then bothered or made the big effort 811 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:50,590 i should say to come to town australia 812 00:33:54,750 --> 00:33:53,290 is now hooking up locally which is 813 00:33:56,730 --> 00:33:54,760 exactly the sort of thing we'd love to 814 00:34:00,360 --> 00:33:56,740 see and love to encourage now i don't 815 00:34:02,430 --> 00:34:00,370 need to tell our listeners to Lucas 816 00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:02,440 Randall is Lucas why will that Luke's is 817 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:04,240 the man who gave the skeptic zone 818 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:06,490 donated to the skeptics and a wonderful 819 00:34:11,849 --> 00:34:09,490 like canon video camera which is being 820 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:11,859 put to very good use busting people all 821 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:13,810 around the world Lucas I know you have a 822 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:15,850 very great interest in skepticism so it 823 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:18,010 must be good for you to hook up with a 824 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:19,690 local group like this yes definitely 825 00:34:24,090 --> 00:34:22,570 Richard as you know I am also starting 826 00:34:25,770 --> 00:34:24,100 and other skeptics in the pub group and 827 00:34:28,169 --> 00:34:25,780 is there's actually three new ones 828 00:34:30,090 --> 00:34:28,179 including the Melbourne skeptics the 829 00:34:31,980 --> 00:34:30,100 Alma skeptics in the pod the eastern 830 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:31,990 hill skeptics in the pub ends the Great 831 00:34:35,250 --> 00:34:33,490 Ocean Road skeptics in the pub that it's 832 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:35,260 just starting off next next month as 833 00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:38,050 well it reminds me the old Australian 834 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:40,480 joke is the country town there's a pub 835 00:34:43,740 --> 00:34:42,010 on every corner and one in the middle in 836 00:34:50,550 --> 00:34:43,750 case you get thirsty going from one pub 837 00:34:52,169 --> 00:34:50,560 to the other what a great idea no 838 00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:52,179 Matthew what's your connection to all 839 00:34:56,580 --> 00:34:54,310 this um well I've been involved in this 840 00:34:58,290 --> 00:34:56,590 kept t'kul movement for a couple of 841 00:35:00,120 --> 00:34:58,300 years I guess it started out like a lot 842 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:00,130 of people listening to podcasts such as 843 00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:02,290 the skeptic zone and a lot of the 844 00:35:06,030 --> 00:35:03,760 American ones skeptics guide to the 845 00:35:07,830 --> 00:35:06,040 universe and I started going along to 846 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:07,840 the Victorian skeptics who have a 847 00:35:13,020 --> 00:35:11,410 monthly sort of skeptics cafe which is a 848 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:13,030 little more formal with a dinner and a 849 00:35:18,210 --> 00:35:16,690 talk usually each month and so this this 850 00:35:20,190 --> 00:35:18,220 Melbourne skeptics made up has just been 851 00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:20,200 fantastic it's a bit more informal and 852 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:21,110 it's just a sort 853 00:35:24,820 --> 00:35:22,850 the traditional skeptics in the pub kind 854 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:24,830 of thing which is great which has been 855 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:27,850 very successful here in Sydney for I 856 00:35:33,190 --> 00:35:30,770 seem to remember six or seven years now 857 00:35:35,620 --> 00:35:33,200 probably about six years really 858 00:35:37,690 --> 00:35:35,630 successful for getting people together 859 00:35:39,970 --> 00:35:37,700 in Sydney and we've made some great new 860 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:39,980 friends let me tell you sir great new 861 00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:41,690 skeptics sorry richard has it really 862 00:35:47,310 --> 00:35:43,510 been gone the going all for that long 863 00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:47,320 yeah well yeah the funny thing is that 864 00:35:52,060 --> 00:35:50,510 well I was the founder of skeptics in 865 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:52,070 the pub in Sydney and I'm trying to 866 00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:54,050 scratch through records and think to 867 00:35:59,700 --> 00:35:55,730 find out when I actually started it but 868 00:36:01,990 --> 00:35:59,710 I'm Bobby whiskey attempted but I'm 869 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:02,000 guessing it's about six years ago 870 00:36:07,990 --> 00:36:04,930 something like that time really flies 871 00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:08,000 but another person of course known to 872 00:36:12,430 --> 00:36:09,710 our audience from a few weeks ago postie 873 00:36:14,350 --> 00:36:12,440 Lindley postie Lindley was that Tam of 874 00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:14,360 course yeah and she joined us for the 875 00:36:18,220 --> 00:36:16,640 Melbourne think tank a few weeks ago it 876 00:36:21,310 --> 00:36:18,230 must have been really fun for you to go 877 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:21,320 along to the to the first skeptics in 878 00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:23,210 the pub yeah I got to get out of the 879 00:36:29,020 --> 00:36:24,800 house and not have to go to work for 880 00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:29,030 once but I'm going to go out and 881 00:36:33,610 --> 00:36:31,280 actually meet people and finally have a 882 00:36:35,830 --> 00:36:33,620 meet up at a pub the other ones usually 883 00:36:37,930 --> 00:36:35,840 at a cafe and that's quite good I agree 884 00:36:40,210 --> 00:36:37,940 i think it pubs better than a cafe are 885 00:36:41,950 --> 00:36:40,220 not because you can drink the alcohol 886 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:41,960 but it's a different atmosphere I think 887 00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:43,370 you'd have to say the alcohol helps 888 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:45,440 that's that's great me and you are a 889 00:36:49,060 --> 00:36:47,330 real post eng you really deliver letters 890 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:49,070 and parcels to be yeah and then they 891 00:36:54,910 --> 00:36:53,090 said I've already passed out one sir I 892 00:36:56,980 --> 00:36:54,920 was rushing to work to get a Slurpee 893 00:37:00,280 --> 00:36:56,990 yesterday and they've got a while Barry 894 00:37:05,710 --> 00:37:00,290 slurpee so I was excited is so good if 895 00:37:09,010 --> 00:37:05,720 that is it's mine that need you pass out 896 00:37:11,110 --> 00:37:09,020 on the postie bike yeah pretty much I 897 00:37:13,300 --> 00:37:11,120 was delivering and it was just too too 898 00:37:20,590 --> 00:37:13,310 much heat to heat exhaustion that was 899 00:37:24,070 --> 00:37:20,600 just when you're delivering slurpees all 900 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:24,080 sense can you deliver a slurpee to me I 901 00:37:32,110 --> 00:37:29,570 would yeah all snippy's all r and thank 902 00:37:33,550 --> 00:37:32,120 you now what what's so what was the 903 00:37:34,690 --> 00:37:33,560 order of events of this very first 904 00:37:36,730 --> 00:37:34,700 meeting of the pub and we 905 00:37:39,339 --> 00:37:36,740 pub was it by the way for our listeners 906 00:37:41,980 --> 00:37:39,349 it was at the james squire brew house 907 00:37:43,780 --> 00:37:41,990 which is in Docklands if you don't know 908 00:37:45,460 --> 00:37:43,790 Melbourne there's kind of a waterfront 909 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:45,470 area that was built you know sort of a 910 00:37:48,970 --> 00:37:47,050 few years ago and it's this massive 911 00:37:51,579 --> 00:37:48,980 multi-million dollar facility and it 912 00:37:53,410 --> 00:37:51,589 turns out that no one goes there I was 913 00:37:55,870 --> 00:37:53,420 there last Friday afternoon and there's 914 00:37:58,150 --> 00:37:55,880 just no one around but there's this 915 00:37:59,650 --> 00:37:58,160 great pub which is a couple is one and I 916 00:38:02,230 --> 00:37:59,660 believe this one in Sydney as well the 917 00:38:04,329 --> 00:38:02,240 james squire brewhouse everyone's James 918 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:04,339 climb a call there be that is sold 919 00:38:08,530 --> 00:38:05,930 around Australia but they have a sort of 920 00:38:10,510 --> 00:38:08,540 a few venues as well with and um there's 921 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:10,520 two specific ones in Melbourne and this 922 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:12,410 is the the newer of the two so it's just 923 00:38:16,450 --> 00:38:13,730 been renovated just been decked out 924 00:38:19,780 --> 00:38:16,460 fantastic view of the water and the sort 925 00:38:21,490 --> 00:38:19,790 of waterfront city area really really 926 00:38:22,980 --> 00:38:21,500 fantastic and it was it was practically 927 00:38:24,940 --> 00:38:22,990 empty when we were there so I think the 928 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:24,950 manager was impressed that we managed to 929 00:38:28,750 --> 00:38:26,570 drag 40 people in there who all had a 930 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:28,760 feed and half a dozen drinks each I 931 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:30,890 think he was pretty stoked other fish so 932 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:32,930 crazy hopefully that means we can use 933 00:38:39,430 --> 00:38:35,210 the venue again exactly it's a great 934 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:39,440 venue for it so what's the idea with the 935 00:38:43,059 --> 00:38:41,210 the skeptics in the pub down there 936 00:38:45,099 --> 00:38:43,069 really is it just a chance for people to 937 00:38:46,690 --> 00:38:45,109 get together and socialize or do you 938 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:46,700 think you might as we do in sydney now 939 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:50,210 have a speaker every month look it's 940 00:38:53,349 --> 00:38:51,770 definitely a possibility I mean I'm 941 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:53,359 quite keen to leave it really really 942 00:38:56,260 --> 00:38:55,130 open to just sort of people can have 943 00:38:58,319 --> 00:38:56,270 whatever they want and I said that to 944 00:39:01,630 --> 00:38:58,329 everyone last night so if not before 945 00:39:03,309 --> 00:39:01,640 that that you know you you've got to 946 00:39:04,839 --> 00:39:03,319 tell me what you want and I'll sort of 947 00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:04,849 put it together if you wanna have a 948 00:39:07,660 --> 00:39:06,560 speaker every month we can do that you 949 00:39:10,540 --> 00:39:07,670 know if there's someone famous in town 950 00:39:12,819 --> 00:39:10,550 like I don't know dr. rachey maybe hint 951 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:12,829 hint we can do that but otherwise it'll 952 00:39:17,319 --> 00:39:15,530 just be a social occasion oh now that's 953 00:39:20,829 --> 00:39:17,329 a good idea I think we should organize 954 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:20,839 for dr. rates you to fly down and do a 955 00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:22,490 talk at one of your skeptics in the pub 956 00:39:31,809 --> 00:39:26,720 I think should be a big hit the like 957 00:39:34,450 --> 00:39:31,819 boys he ought to shut up there well I 958 00:39:35,980 --> 00:39:34,460 think that our God rizal was there is 959 00:39:38,020 --> 00:39:35,990 already the sort of the formal thing 960 00:39:40,359 --> 00:39:38,030 with the Victorian skeptics I think do 961 00:39:42,670 --> 00:39:40,369 that they have a speaker each month or 962 00:39:44,740 --> 00:39:42,680 whatever um which is also very good I 963 00:39:46,750 --> 00:39:44,750 think I like the idea of having the 964 00:39:48,580 --> 00:39:46,760 informal thing which is like I tweeted 965 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:48,590 beforehand it was like Tam 966 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:50,810 but without the lectures and the 967 00:39:55,510 --> 00:39:52,690 speakers and workshops in there right 968 00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:55,520 right now I think what you people are 969 00:40:00,220 --> 00:39:58,640 doing is is really inspiring people all 970 00:40:01,780 --> 00:40:00,230 around the world who are hearing this to 971 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:01,790 think to themselves well why don't we 972 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:04,130 have a skeptics in the pub how hard was 973 00:40:08,590 --> 00:40:05,690 it Chris to pull all this together it 974 00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:08,600 was not hard at all it was literally 975 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:10,310 just a case of putting up a facebook 976 00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:12,410 event putting up a website i'm at my web 977 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:14,960 designer anyway so that was easy and 978 00:40:17,950 --> 00:40:16,970 yeah 40 people turned up you know the 979 00:40:19,900 --> 00:40:17,960 only people that I really knew 980 00:40:22,660 --> 00:40:19,910 beforehand were where Matt Lindley and 981 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:22,670 Lucas was a few other places I 982 00:40:25,540 --> 00:40:24,050 recognized but apart from that everyone 983 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:25,550 just turned up from word of mouth which 984 00:40:32,500 --> 00:40:29,330 was great and and a matchup in Edward of 985 00:40:35,020 --> 00:40:32,510 Twitter of course of course yeah twitter 986 00:40:38,620 --> 00:40:35,030 as well yay for Twitter healthy you know 987 00:40:39,970 --> 00:40:38,630 the amazing thing was on the night there 988 00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:39,980 was anything about 24 people who 989 00:40:44,620 --> 00:40:42,250 actually responded to the facebook event 990 00:40:46,570 --> 00:40:44,630 but on the night quite a few people's 991 00:40:48,700 --> 00:40:46,580 aren't spoken to said oh you know i'm on 992 00:40:50,530 --> 00:40:48,710 twitter and also and so was going to 993 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:50,540 this enough at all you know might be 994 00:40:55,870 --> 00:40:52,250 worth chicken and i'm having a great 995 00:40:57,580 --> 00:40:55,880 time dada sir also necessarily people 996 00:41:01,000 --> 00:40:57,590 who saw her facebook and it's just tied 997 00:41:04,060 --> 00:41:01,010 back into what Kieran was a cure and who 998 00:41:07,330 --> 00:41:04,070 said about Twitter yes it was ah I've 999 00:41:10,270 --> 00:41:07,340 got a right just tie back in with how 1000 00:41:12,460 --> 00:41:10,280 powerful twitter is as as a medium for 1001 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:12,470 disseminating all that information EG 1002 00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:14,330 put it on twitter everyone will see it 1003 00:41:18,610 --> 00:41:16,640 i'll get passed on so i reckon that 1004 00:41:21,210 --> 00:41:18,620 really works i reckon that almost 1005 00:41:23,230 --> 00:41:21,220 doubled the number i agree yeah 1006 00:41:25,630 --> 00:41:23,240 absolutely i think you're absolutely 1007 00:41:28,750 --> 00:41:25,640 right yes I can't help to agree with you 1008 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:28,760 and of course the Twitter that everybody 1009 00:41:32,380 --> 00:41:30,410 listening to the skeptic zone especially 1010 00:41:36,730 --> 00:41:32,390 those in Melbourne Victoria should add 1011 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:36,740 to their list is at Mel Burke's and of 1012 00:41:40,690 --> 00:41:39,050 the website that everybody in Victoria 1013 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:40,700 and Melbourne should run and bookmark 1014 00:41:47,020 --> 00:41:44,090 straightaway is Melbourne skeptics calm 1015 00:41:50,350 --> 00:41:47,030 I you spelt the the skeptical way with a 1016 00:41:52,930 --> 00:41:50,360 que oh you may be sol acclaim yeah 1017 00:41:54,730 --> 00:41:52,940 shameless cross-promotion there there's 1018 00:41:56,530 --> 00:41:54,740 a Facebook page as well which is just 1019 00:41:58,450 --> 00:41:56,540 facebook.com slash Melbourne skeptics 1020 00:42:00,370 --> 00:41:58,460 that's great now when's the next time 1021 00:42:02,089 --> 00:42:00,380 when's the next time we can rush down to 1022 00:42:04,519 --> 00:42:02,099 Melbourne rush to the pub 1023 00:42:06,170 --> 00:42:04,529 and have a few cold ones with you yeah 1024 00:42:09,769 --> 00:42:06,180 Chris when's the next one on the prisons 1025 00:42:12,259 --> 00:42:09,779 where the next one yes every 28 the next 1026 00:42:13,609 --> 00:42:12,269 yeah okay I'm on but so they're 28 the 1027 00:42:18,229 --> 00:42:13,619 februari the events going to happen on 1028 00:42:19,969 --> 00:42:18,239 the fourth monday of every month so yeah 1029 00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:19,979 28 next month then all the dates are up 1030 00:42:22,969 --> 00:42:21,359 on the website if you go to the skeptics 1031 00:42:24,259 --> 00:42:22,979 in the pub page on the Melbourne 1032 00:42:27,739 --> 00:42:24,269 skeptics website you can see all the 1033 00:42:28,999 --> 00:42:27,749 dates for 2011 see and if you're too if 1034 00:42:30,650 --> 00:42:29,009 you're too keen to wait for that of 1035 00:42:31,999 --> 00:42:30,660 course the Melbourne ease and he'll 1036 00:42:33,979 --> 00:42:32,009 skeptics in the pub begins on the 1037 00:42:35,539 --> 00:42:33,989 fifteenth of every and then we'll be 1038 00:42:39,170 --> 00:42:35,549 meeting on the second monday of every 1039 00:42:40,940 --> 00:42:39,180 month out sat at knox field i think our 1040 00:42:43,279 --> 00:42:40,950 goal is to have a skeptics in the pub 1041 00:42:44,660 --> 00:42:43,289 every night of the week somewhere but 1042 00:42:48,069 --> 00:42:44,670 you must come to this one because they 1043 00:42:50,660 --> 00:42:48,079 serve a big pharma Palmer oh yeah in the 1044 00:42:53,859 --> 00:42:50,670 Bandidos a picture of me eating my big 1045 00:42:57,109 --> 00:42:53,869 pharma Palmer I'm a big timer shell yep 1046 00:42:59,719 --> 00:42:57,119 polisher even steve roberts had a nice 1047 00:43:01,729 --> 00:42:59,729 big charmer Palmer too he did yes no 1048 00:43:04,370 --> 00:43:01,739 lynly for those people listening overs 1049 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:04,380 overseas can you explain a big pharma 1050 00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:07,410 Palmer oh it had um Pam it was a chicken 1051 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:09,440 chicken big chicken with cheese and 1052 00:43:16,370 --> 00:43:13,170 sauce with a bacon and eggs on top i 1053 00:43:18,769 --> 00:43:16,380 think it was absolutely enormous it was 1054 00:43:21,229 --> 00:43:18,779 huge it was like a there's the full 1055 00:43:25,009 --> 00:43:21,239 foghorn leghorn chicken here look like 1056 00:43:26,809 --> 00:43:25,019 tasty too faster well look don't be 1057 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:26,819 surprised if half the skipping zone now 1058 00:43:33,380 --> 00:43:29,130 come down to the next ccd that's all you 1059 00:43:35,299 --> 00:43:33,390 want comes it a bigger pub we got a new 1060 00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:35,309 years that's right I'm sure dr. a cheese 1061 00:43:40,940 --> 00:43:38,160 is is the most interested to visit your 1062 00:43:43,249 --> 00:43:40,950 pub now to give a talk and maybe you 1063 00:43:46,279 --> 00:43:43,259 haven't tried the big Palmer the Big 1064 00:43:49,180 --> 00:43:46,289 Pharma lovely but listen thank you all 1065 00:43:51,499 --> 00:43:49,190 very much for jumping on skype with me 1066 00:43:53,749 --> 00:43:51,509 everybody in Melbourne if you're of a 1067 00:43:56,180 --> 00:43:53,759 skeptical mind this is the place for you 1068 00:43:58,609 --> 00:43:56,190 to be a great opportunity to meet 1069 00:44:00,650 --> 00:43:58,619 like-minded people have a big pharma 1070 00:44:03,799 --> 00:44:00,660 Palmer a couple of beers and a really 1071 00:44:06,170 --> 00:44:03,809 good time so MiLB skeptics thank you 1072 00:44:13,170 --> 00:44:06,180 very much thank you thank you thank you 1073 00:44:17,259 --> 00:44:15,849 hey you skeptics I have some to share 1074 00:44:19,329 --> 00:44:17,269 with you I've got something that's going 1075 00:44:20,529 --> 00:44:19,339 to get all you soft dicks to stop 1076 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:20,539 ignoring the truth that's right in front 1077 00:44:25,029 --> 00:44:23,450 of your faces this is an EVP I recorded 1078 00:44:27,579 --> 00:44:25,039 last night there was no one else around 1079 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:27,589 no other electronic equipment no other 1080 00:44:40,740 --> 00:44:29,930 explanation this was a voice from beyond 1081 00:44:40,750 --> 00:44:57,390 let me slow it down even slower slower 1082 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:00,640 how you doing I'm a ghost I've 1083 00:45:05,499 --> 00:45:03,650 unfinished business what's up you guys 1084 00:45:08,980 --> 00:45:05,509 can't possibly ignore that type of it 1085 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:08,990 you who are you are you doing my egg 1086 00:45:13,809 --> 00:45:11,210 hang I'm sorry but there are no spirits 1087 00:45:15,279 --> 00:45:13,819 trying to contact you EVPs are the 1088 00:45:17,289 --> 00:45:15,289 result of pareidolia I'm cross 1089 00:45:20,769 --> 00:45:17,299 modulation combined with the listeners 1090 00:45:22,839 --> 00:45:20,779 hopes and expectations and since when 1091 00:45:27,609 --> 00:45:22,849 the hell can you use the unknown to the 1092 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:27,619 unknown this have to do with science you 1093 00:45:38,030 --> 00:45:32,690 just got skeptically food well go see 1094 00:45:55,250 --> 00:45:41,760 skeptically pawn shop we're all playing 1095 00:46:00,980 --> 00:45:58,050 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1096 00:46:03,450 --> 00:46:00,990 zone I found Maenads interview this week 1097 00:46:05,580 --> 00:46:03,460 very disturbing I must say and 1098 00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:05,590 congratulations to those Melbourne 1099 00:46:10,890 --> 00:46:08,560 skeptics for a such a great initiative 1100 00:46:12,570 --> 00:46:10,900 and I hope to visit in fact I think the 1101 00:46:14,610 --> 00:46:12,580 whole skeptic zone team will have to 1102 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:14,620 make sure we go down and visit you guys 1103 00:46:19,650 --> 00:46:16,810 in Melbourne at your Melbourne skeptics 1104 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:19,660 in the pub if there's a pretty cheap 1105 00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:21,610 these days I think yeah sounds good to 1106 00:46:26,850 --> 00:46:24,730 me now in the past week past couple of 1107 00:46:30,510 --> 00:46:26,860 weeks I've really seen how skeptic zone 1108 00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:30,520 fans can leap into action first of all I 1109 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:32,800 want to thank everybody who contributed 1110 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:36,210 to the new microphone for dr. Reggie a 1111 00:46:43,620 --> 00:46:39,610 big thank you to listen at ruvolo who 1112 00:46:45,810 --> 00:46:43,630 contributed quite a decent amount all of 1113 00:46:48,420 --> 00:46:45,820 your efforts combined mean that the new 1114 00:46:51,570 --> 00:46:48,430 microphone for dr. Richie is on the way 1115 00:46:53,850 --> 00:46:51,580 as I speak fantastic she can't wait to 1116 00:46:56,490 --> 00:46:53,860 get it and I'm sure her dr. Reggie 1117 00:46:58,820 --> 00:46:56,500 reports segments will sound even better 1118 00:47:01,350 --> 00:46:58,830 than they did before if that's possible 1119 00:47:04,070 --> 00:47:01,360 also thank you to all the listeners who 1120 00:47:06,810 --> 00:47:04,080 wrote in with your comments about our 1121 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:06,820 interview last week maynards interview 1122 00:47:12,810 --> 00:47:10,530 with Jessica Adams the astrologer I 1123 00:47:15,390 --> 00:47:12,820 really didn't need to say anything at 1124 00:47:17,190 --> 00:47:15,400 all you people you know your arguments 1125 00:47:18,780 --> 00:47:17,200 you know your logical fallacies your 1126 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:18,790 contradictions you're pleased to 1127 00:47:23,130 --> 00:47:20,890 Authority and all the rest of it if you 1128 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:23,140 want to see what other people said or 1129 00:47:27,090 --> 00:47:25,570 thought about the interview with Jessica 1130 00:47:30,650 --> 00:47:27,100 Adams and her points of view about 1131 00:47:34,650 --> 00:47:30,660 astrology defending astrology head to ww 1132 00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:34,660 skeptics on TV and click the comments 1133 00:47:43,260 --> 00:47:38,800 link for episode 119 it makes for 1134 00:47:48,510 --> 00:47:43,270 fascinating reading oh yes I almost 1135 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:48,520 forgot happy birthday Stefan Soyka so 1136 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:51,010 until next week this is Richard Saunders 1137 00:47:58,940 --> 00:47:53,170 signing off from the middle of a heat 1138 00:48:06,300 --> 00:48:01,349 you've been listening to the skeptic 1139 00:48:10,109 --> 00:48:06,310 zone visit our website at www skeptic